User talk:LorenzoAncora

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Hello

Welcome to the Backlog Admin Group (BAG). I was surprised that you nor anyone else didn't introduce yourself to me.

I use to insert the admin verification link below on admin user pages but it was hard to read the markup since it was pure HTML (perhaps it's copy/pasted from a web page?) and not MediaWiki markup. Please fill the email if you are ok with that or remove * Email: '''Please add your email'''. However I need you email since you are member of BAG so you can email it to me at public@beloved.name if you want to keep it private. You can insert the below text in you user page if you want to use it:

{{DISPLAYTITLE:Lorenzo Ancora|noerror}}

My real name is '''Lorenzo L. Ancora'''. I am an [[Free_Software_Directory:Administrators|administrator]] on the Free Software Directory. ([https://directory.fsf.org/wiki?title=Special:ListUsers&offset=&limit=1&username=LorenzoAncora&group=sysop verify]) I am a member of the [[Free Software Directory:Backlog Admin Group|Backlog Admin Group]]. I speak Italian and English. We appreciate participation.

* Website: [https://www.lorenzoancora.info/ lorenzoancora.info]
* Email: '''Please add your email'''
* [https://webchat.freenode.net IRC].: I'm <code>kindling</code>
** [[File:ApacheQuill.png|link=|Contacts]] [[User:LorenzoAncora/IRC/MemoServ|Query IRC <i>MemoServ</i>]] to leave an email message.
** [[File:ApacheQuill.png|link=|Contacts]] [[User:LorenzoAncora/IRC/Chat|Chat in channel/query]] during each Friday IRC Meeting for the Free Software Directory.

FSF - Formal Reputation System: [[User:LorenzoAncora/documents/Formal_Reputation_System|FSF-FRS]]

Latest edit to {{FULLPAGENAME}} is {{REVISIONID}} at {{REVISIONTIMESTAMP}} by {{REVISIONUSER}}.<br />
Current date: {{CURRENTYEAR}}/{{CURRENTMONTH}}/{{CURRENTDAY2}}.

Kind regards. --David Hedlund (talk) 13:27, 29 May 2019 (EDT)

Hi David, we met a long time ago during the weekly meeting, it's a pleasure to hear from you again. Since I am a regular contributor to the meetings, I am an administrator from 7 dic 2018‎ and I have a personal website, I am well known and you should have no trouble contacting me directly or indirectly. 🙂
My user page contains markup code specially created for the Free Software Directory in order to guarantee a well-defined aspect and a well-defined behavior, which could not be obtained through abstractions such as wikitext. You can freely draw inspiration from it, without having to ask: I'm not one of those people who loves to copy, I like to build from scratch and eventually share.
As requested, I added my email to the user page, top right together with the other links. If that's not enough, I get in the same inbox every notification from this wiki and from IRC MemoServ.
If you need anything else, I remain at your disposal. --LorenzoAncora (talk) 10:22, 30 May 2019 (EDT)
Thanks, I added the admin verfication link to your page, please review it: https://directory.fsf.org/wiki?title=User%3ALorenzoAncora&type=revision&diff=77961&oldid=77934 --David Hedlund (talk) 03:54, 3 June 2019 (EDT)


Personal Kanban

David Hedlund can you approve Personal Kanban, please? :-) -- LorenzoAncora (talk) 15:49, 16 October 2018 (EDT)

You might want to post this message on David's talk page. -- Sudoman (talk) 10:23, 17 October 2018 (EDT)
He should receive a notification as it happens on Wikipedia. If you (who are not mentioned) have received a notification, why should not he? :-O
David likely didn't receive a notification because he probably isn't tracking changes to your talk page. He won't be notified by someone linking to his user page. You have to write something on a page they're watching, such as their talk page.
On Wikipedia it is enough to quote a user so that he receives a notification. It would be a good idea to copy that method, also because you too use MediaWiki. -- LorenzoAncora (talk) 15:24, 18 October 2018 (EDT)

The reason why I noticed your message, was because I was looking for spam on the forum and thought I should let you know. -- Sudoman (talk) 10:50, 18 October 2018 (EDT)

Anyway, why do not you approve it instead? It should be the same thing. :-) -- LorenzoAncora (talk) 13:44, 17 October 2018 (EDT)
I generally don't review entries, because I'm very busy with other things. I suggest joining #fsf on freenode during the directory meeting and asking someone to review your entry. See the Main_Page for info. Thanks! -- Sudoman (talk) 10:50, 18 October 2018 (EDT)
... Ok. I have already sent an email to Joshua Gay of #fsf on 15/10. However, I will contact Mr. Hedlund on his page. So, anytime I edit my program page... do I have to request approval again? -- LorenzoAncora (talk) 15:24, 18 October 2018 (EDT)
Josh Gay doesn't work for the FSF anymore. Someone needs to approve your page, but I'm not sure whether it is needed each time. Active participants in the Directory and Directory meetings sometimes become Directory admins whose edits are automatically approved. -- Sudoman (talk) 10:50, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
Yes, you should definitely join us for the Directory meetings. They happen every Friday at Noon Eastern. I came across this here in the meeting, and it's more fun to work on the Directory with friends. I'm the new Josh Gay btw (well, relatively new; I've been at it for a couple years now) donaldr3 (talk) 12:19, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
Thank you for the explanation and for approving my pages.
I will try to attend your meetings (for me it is at 18:00 in the evening). :-) -- LorenzoAncora (talk) 15:22, 19 October 2018 (EDT)
You are welcome! Thank you for contributing to software freedom! - Craigt (talk) 15:22, 16 November 2018 (EST)

unset (please remove message when done)

You forgot to unset approved

https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Cfengine_(non-GNU)

--Bendikker (talk) 13:01, 1 January 2019 (EST)

I set it up right after last week's meeting but then you and Craigt did some edits and it seemed rude to press not approved. However, since you ask, I set it now. TY and happy new year to both of you. :-) --LorenzoAncora (talk) 13:49, 1 January 2019 (EST)

Happy New Year to you to, Best Wishes. --Bendikker (talk) 16:57, 1 January 2019 (EST)


Licence category (may remove this message)

Hello, I see you are working on the licences, when I edited some, I noticed not all containing

Category:Free license (at the end)

I am only working on completing a specific backlog entry. I must only delete or reformat pages, not alter their categorization. --LorenzoAncora (talk) 14:26, 11 January 2019 (EST)

Also, I restored a licence david had deleted (It is used when editing on the blue space where you can save, but maybe take a look at it, maybe you can do it better https://directory.fsf.org/wiki/Free_Software_Directory:Copyrights (should maybe be http://static.fsf.org/nosvn/directory/fdl-1.3-standalone.html)

I've enhanced and approved Free_Software_Directory:Copyrights. The other admins will choose with a votation to make link to it or to the official license page. --LorenzoAncora (talk) 14:26, 11 January 2019 (EST)

Best regards --Bendikker (talk) 13:21, 11 January 2019 (EST)

Keep up with your good work. --LorenzoAncora (talk) 14:26, 11 January 2019 (EST)

Please do not #### up again

  • There is a good reason not to check the is GNU when decommissioned. Do not check if decommissioned. vandal --Bendikker (talk) 13:56, 6 September 2019 (EDT)
  • And I made proper homepages, let them be made upstairs. --Bendikker (talk) 14:01, 6 September 2019 (EDT)
Hi Bendikker, it's a pleasure to read you again after months.
Some of your changes have been canceled (and I strongly advise against restoring them again) because they reintroduced pending links or pieces of pages copied and pasted from other pages. In addition, an obsolete GNU package remains a GNU package, it does not lose the acquired status (it is considered "waiting for a maintainer"):
GNU packages are occasionally decommissioned, generally because they've been superseded by, or integrated into, other packages. If you have time and interest in resurrecting any of these, please contact <maintainers@gnu.org>.
Please, if any admin has activated that flag, do not remove it (unless there are really, really good reasons to do it).
Please, don't call other users "vandal" and treat their changes as you would treat yours.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation. :-) --LorenzoAncora (talk) 14:14, 6 September 2019 (EDT)
OK #### it up like you wish, bye bye again. --Bendikker (talk) 14:34, 6 September 2019 (EDT)
####? I wouldn't call them that way: these are decisions made by the administrators during the meetings (decided by majority), these are not choices that I make independently. In general, I never make independent decisions except in urgent cases. We decided that it was wiser to update the Directory policies based on factors like SEO, UX, performance, etc. and some of your changes were incompatible with these factors. These are things you couldn't know, because you did not attend the meetings. Continue your modifications as well, but never copy and paste content from one page to another (each page must have specialized content) and never cancel the changes made by the administrators (which are democratically decided in advance).
Have a good evening and if you need anything, remember that I'm always there for you. :-) --LorenzoAncora (talk) 15:32, 6 September 2019 (EDT)
  • Can you explain what you mean with: pending links or pieces of pages copied and pasted from other pages (what did I copy and paste from other pages? (I could have done a view times, this will not happen again, because I myself am not satisfied with such a solution.) --Bendikker (talk) 02:24, 7 September 2019 (EDT)
Hi Bendikker, I've received a total of 20 notifications in 5 hours from you. Each notification is a new email and a new version saved in the history of this discussion page. This is not your personal notepad, do 1 edit and wait for an answer. Other users may be subscribed to the notifications of this page, so group your edits in a single one, like we all do. Now I will answer all your questions:
Pending links: hyperlinks to remote documents that no longer exist. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • Can you explain: factors like SEO, UX --Bendikker (talk) 03:01, 7 September 2019 (EDT)
SEO:Search Engine Optimization; UX:User eXperience. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • My goal is to achief more quality and consistency.
I do not have doubts. :-) --LorenzoAncora (talk)
You have to make informed decisions based on each specific case. You can't copy-paste from one page to another or use a standard template, it's not good. Each software is a unique case and requires time, dedication and precision. We do not look for quantity, we look for quality, so concentrate for a long time on each item you want to improve and if you need help ask the administrators. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • There are too many GNU packages with little info, even some not decommissioned ones. By flagging all as GNU you will have a long list with too many bad quality entries.
The "GNU package" flag does not take into account quality or time: if a package meets the GNU standards and has been accepted by the GNU community then that flag must be activated. It is not something you can decide for yourself, if the package is part of the GNU project, you must activate the flag. Even if the package is not listed among the active or supported ones, as you were told before, a GNU package remains waiting for a new maintainer and that flag must remain active. As you were told, once the GNU flag has been activated by an admin (which is generally more informed), a user should not disable it. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • I try to explain the most important rules I follow.
The only rules you need to follow here are those of the Directory and the FSF. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
Unfortunately this is not always the case. Webmasters take care of identifiers, but to activate an identifier, there is usually an active maintainer. In other words, if there is an identifier then that is definitely a GNU package, but if the identifier is missing then it is not safe to say that a given package is not GNU. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • For all GNU packages the same identifier should at least be used on Savannah GNU and FSD.
  • On ftp alpha gnu oldgnu = For each directory is a GNU package identifier (unless obvious not, only if cant prevent. ftp also should not contain loose files unless cant prevent)
No, in reality the packages can change names for copyright reasons, licenses and legal issues of any kind (I am a simple person, ask the licensing team if you want to learn more). It is possible that a package has more names and more identifiers, accumulated over time and then forgotten. Other packages have had a fleeting existence, while remaining GNU packages. You have to use the reasoning to understand which are the names that identify a certain software: in the Directory the current official name is that of the page, all the others are transformed (as we realize it) in redirect. Nothing complicated, but you have to pay attention. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • On Savannah = Each declared official GNU software = GNU package
Yes, GNU Savannah accepts only verified GNU packages in the GNU section. However, if a package is not on GNU Savannah it does not mean that it is not a true GNU package. GNU Savannah is relatively new. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • ON GNU: On https://www.gnu.org/software/ Lists all GNU packages that exists with their identifier all listed identifiers are GNU packages, identifiers can only contain (on FSD the first letter will unfortunately be capitalized): 0-9 a-z -
As mentioned before, these sites are maintained by webmasters (including me) and may have partial content. If a package is listed on that page then it is definitely a GNU package, but if it is missing from that page it is not necessarily not a GNU package. You must use reasoning for each individual case. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • Try to populate all FSD GNU entries by contacting upstream, they can not be removed when upstream GNU/Savannah exists.
No page can be removed without the explicit consent of the Directory administrators. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • Obviously any GNU package identifier is GNU on GNU and Savannah and FSD. For FSD GNU and Savannah, GNU package identifiers are reserved for GNU packages.
GNU packages and their names always take precedence over any other software in the directory. I am particularly soft in this sense and hardly delete pages when there is a conflict of names. The best solution is always to disambiguate the names and contents of the pages, to arrive at a peaceful solution to satisfy all the developers. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • Obviously there can only be one identifier tied to one GNU package. (thales tied to two GNU packages strangely enough)
As said before this would be ideal, but it is not always true. All the pages of the Directory can have more than one name: when a software has more names, those no longer in use become (manually) redirect to the most recent one. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
  • There are though problems I encounter dc/bc gnuzilla/icecat (meta projects?)
These are complex issues that require the participation of multiple teams. I deal with the technical aspects and take all the important decisions during the meetings, democratically. If you want to know more, take part in the meetings, ask one question at a time and wait calmly for the answer. The administrators are very friendly (including me) and will clear your doubts when possible. --LorenzoAncora (talk)

Other rules For nongnu projects on Savannah

  • For projects on Savannah the identifiers should also only contain (on FSD the first letter will unfortunately be capitalized): 0-9 a-z -
  • For projects on Savannah suitable to have an entry on the FSD the same identifier as on Savannah should be used.

--Bendikker (talk) 04:56, 7 September 2019 (EDT)

Directory pages support complex names but it is good to minimize accents and symbols. In particular, the "&" symbol, the "+" symbol, spaces and apostrophes of any kind are to be avoided or converted into other equivalent characters. Conversion is automatic but not always correct. When administrators find pages with ambiguous or difficult-to-write names for users, they change names by making a decision during meetings. As for me, if the name of the pages (of any page) can be improved, I immediately improve it. They are not simple choices, but in most cases the visibility of the software increases and the change is positive. The crucial point is that the Directory is independent of the other portals (different software, different rules) and therefore it is necessary to judge case by case which is the most advantageous choice in the long term. I hope I have clarified all your doubts, although obviously I cannot speak for the administrators of other portals. If you have other questions, we await for you in the IRC meetings.
Goodbye. :-) --LorenzoAncora (talk) 18:55, 9 September 2019 (EDT)


About libstdc++

  • You have changed libstdc++ to libstdPlusPlus
  • In this few cases, only one existing not decommissioned GNU package uses + gtk+ wich I do also not agree.
  • The capitalized letters I see as a problem. I propose for ++ -pp for + -plus (gtk+ itself uses gtk)
  • libstdc-pp would be obvious enough I guess.

--Bendikker (talk) 03:47, 7 September 2019 (EDT)

This was not an autonomous decision, the page was renamed to avoid compatibility problems. The style of the sentence was chosen on purpose because it is common practice in C ++ to use the CamelCase, so it was a mere translation to avoid annoying the developers. The new name works fine, no need to rename the page again. In the future other pages with consecutive "+" could be renamed or redirected to avoid compatibility problems (with browsers, wiki plugins, feed readers, etc.). --LorenzoAncora (talk) 19:01, 9 September 2019 (EDT)
It is not that hard to find them. --Bendikker (talk) 19:21, 9 September 2019 (EDT)
As explained before, it is not a question of indexability but of compatibility with different types of web clients. We have already done so that the name change cannot compromise the visibility of the software, both socially and technically, so you won't notice the difference. --LorenzoAncora (talk)
It is also not that hard to approve some more or to check the candidates for deletion but as FSF you dont have enough time for the contents of the directory. --Bendikker (talk) 19:28, 9 September 2019 (EDT)
The software - of any type - is approved during the meetings, after a complete revision of the item and all the linked pages. This is not a quick or simple process, because there is a strict procedure to follow before a page can be approved. In general, each admin approves no more than 5 pages during each meeting. GNU packages are approved according to the same procedures. It takes time, but all the pages are put in a queue and eventually they will all be subject to the approval process. Don't worry if your changes are not approved immediately, because sooner or later they will inevitably be validated. The approval time increases if you save a page several times because the admin must compare and understand each change, then make as many changes as possible before saving a page. If you want the changes to be accepted, you must also make sure that the summary contains an accurate description of all the changes made: if the summary does not exactly describe the change, the change will be canceled. This is required to detect vandalism.
All administrators follow this practice invariably and take their time. Cheers. --LorenzoAncora (talk) 07:06, 10 September 2019 (EDT)

I guess your not from this world, I also miss a lot of licenses. --Bendikker (talk) 07:24, 10 September 2019 (EDT)

We have 20,437 interconnected pages and we strive to keep them coherent while 3,332 users make all sort of edits (we've checked 80,156 edits since the creation of the Free Software Directory). Perfection does not exist, but we do our best. :-)
The SPDX Group is taking care of the transition from the old license names to the new standard license identifiers. During this transition we decided to forbid the addition of new licenses and also delete all licenses that users must never use (the FSD accepts only free software). If a license is not present and there is no SPDX name for it, then it means that the software cannot be referenced from here (it probably has closed-source components). If you believe that a software is actually free but has a license not provided by the Directory, then you have to propose it during a meeting and if necessary the license will be added to the Directory. I am the least suitable person to ask for information on licenses because I deal with many tasks (I am the "handyman" of the Directory) but I do not deal with the legal aspects, except on a purely technical level. To learn more about the licenses, ask the specialized team. --LorenzoAncora (talk) 08:28, 10 September 2019 (EDT)
I was right what I said the last time. This is my last respond. (Over 21000 edits I have made, a lot of renames and redirects about 200 new entries even new and changed licenses) --Bendikker (talk) 06:26, 11 September 2019 (EDT)
As you think, I remain at your disposal. Just remember that your contributions are welcome like those of anyone else. The important thing is quality, not quantity, and as long as your edits are done with respect and expertise, we admin will always approve them. Have a nice day. --LorenzoAncora (talk) 14:36, 12 September 2019 (EDT)


Please, I want you to remove all my edits from this page. --Bendikker (talk) 17:29, 12 September 2019 (EDT)

Bendikker both administrators and users cannot (must not) remove old messages from the discussion pages, unless they contain malicious or personal content. When the size of the page will be over 32 KiB (now it is 16.3 KiB) I will archive all messages in a sub-page, but they will remain. The most I can do is annotate your desire and make sure that the archived page will no longer be reachable by search engines.
I've also noticed that you claim to be an administrator on your discussion page, but this is not true (you do not have a certified user page). I don't know if this is some sort of phishing attempt toward another user or a joke, but I must remove this claim to prevent frauds. If you rollback my edit again you may lose the ability to edit the wiki for some time. --LorenzoAncora (talk) 07:09, 13 September 2019 (EDT)


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